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Dragons in the Grove

2/24/2012

10 Comments

 

Every group of people, no matter how well intentioned and organized, will eventually come across a dragon.  Dragons are people who, while they don’t necessarily mean to do ill, often cause drama and stress.  In a church of 200-300 people, they can cause a great deal of damage, but rarely do they kill the church.  In a grove or circle of 3-30 people, they can wipe out all remains of what was once a spiritual home.  My new sapling grove is very important to me, and I want it to grow healthy enough to last well after I am gone.  This means that as a leader I need to be prepared for the dragons that are a guarantee at some point in the future.  Thankfully, I have not met with too many dragons so far.  My grove has been very fortunate on this score, but again I feel it is only a matter of time before a scaled beastie shows up.

There are no book sources that I have found that are written from a Pagan perspective.  Pagan groves and circles have a very different dynamic than larger Christian churches, but some of the same techniques for dragon taming can apply. For this reason, I have been investing in several books that describe how best to deal with, and maybe even tame a dragon in a manner that will not burn the congregation (even if a few singes may occur).  The first step is in identifying what type of beastie we are dealing with. 

I am going to list some of the types of scaly creatures there are, but I am still in the process of researching how best to deal with them in a healthy manner.  I am afraid that for this reason I am not really able to give much advice on how to handle them.  Not all people who exhibit the traits of a dragon are a real beastie. Nor are all the dragons exclusively in the congregation. They can be leaders as well. The real dragons burn hot and cause fires that are hard to ignore.  It is often by the amount of damage that is occurring that we can truly identify a beastie. 

The first book that I have read on this subject, and where I get the term dragon from, is a book called, “Well-Intentioned Dragons,” by Marshall Shelley. This book provides an excellent description of the various types of dragons that tend to show up in groups, no matter what the size. 

First, we have “the bird dog.”  These are the people who scout out issues that are probably not really issues that need attention.  They like to scout out the gossip and then point the leader to the individuals that they find offensive.  My mom used to call ‘em busy bodies, but bird dog sounds much nicer.  These are people who really do feel that they are doing the right thing and helping out.  They tend to couch what they are doing in spiritual terms.

“These people like to give the impression they have more spiritual perception than anyone else.” (p.38)

The Prussian General von Moltke once divided his officer core into categories: 1) Mentally dull and physically lazy.  2) Mentally bright and physically energetic. 3) Mentally dull and physically energetic, and 4) bright and lazy (Gratzon, p.46).  The first group he viewed as harmless. The third group he dismissed out right, because they tend to be very dangerous people. The second group he sequestered to smaller leadership positions, because these are the types that tend to micro manage.  Bird dogs are most likely to be in this second type. Bird dogs tend to do little real harm to the group, especially if given other tasks to distract them from what others are doing. 

Next, we have “the wet blanket.” These are the people who find so much fault in any idea or project that the group gets bogged down to the point of motionlessness. They sap strength and energy to the point that a small group is often disbanded.  The wet blankets are easier to loose in larger groups and can be kept in check by numbers, but very few Pagan groups are lucky enough to have those types of numbers. This is a dragon I am still trying to figure out how to deal with in an affective manner in a small group setting. Thankfully, I have yet to meet one in our grove.  Any ideas of how you have dealt with them in the past left in comments would be very helpful.

On the opposite side of the wet blanket we have the entrepreneur. This is the person who uses the group as the focus for business adventures.  They will use the phone lists to try to sell their latest product.  These are much less destructive in a small group than the wet blanket.  They can be irritating, but rules put in place that state explicitly what phone lists and ritual get togethers are really for, help to keep this type of person in check.

In General von Moltke’s third category we often find Captain Bluster .  This is the type who knows it all and how it should be done.  They wont hear the other options and often steam roll the opposition.  If you don’t agree whole heartedly with them, then you are an enemy that needs dealing with.  They also seem to enjoy watching the fires that they start. This is one dragon I have felt the heat from first hand, and it was not fun.  The best advice I can give from my experience is do all in your power to be sure that the Captain has no power or authority in the group.  How to deal with one who already has such a position is another issue I am trying to figure out how best to deal with.  Thoughts are always welcome in comments {{{HINTHINT}}}

Also lurking in the dark woods are the sniper and the bookkeeper. The sniper talks smack about everyone else, while the bookkeeper will record every little transgression perceived to use for later ammunition.  These two are often shadowy figures that are often hard to spot in the process of starting a fire.  I am getting the impression from my readings that these two are best dealt with in open check in type meetings.  These type of meeting require everyone to be very open and trusting.  Ground rules for how people are allowed to speak can also help.  For example, the use of “I” language exclusively would have to be a requirement (“I feel hurt that such and such was said about me”, instead of “when you said blah”).


Dragons are unfortunately a part of group life. They can be very hard to tame, but can often be turned into powerful allies and members. How have you dealt with them?

Sources:

Gratzon, F. (2003). The lazy way to success. Fairfield, Iowa: Soma Press
Shelley, M. (1994). Well-intentioned Dragons: Ministering to problem people in the church. Minnesota: Bethany house publishers
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10 Comments
Kris Holmes (Turtle)
2/24/2012 01:39:34 am

I wonder if some study of consensus process would be helpful. I know at least one Pagan author with some information in this area, Starhawk. http://www.starhawk.org/activism/trainer-resources/consensus.html

It can be difficult and tedious to use, and does take some getting used to. It also depends entirely on the structure of the group, as far as whether you want/need a strong leader or want a more group-based process.

Just another bone for the stew pot. :)

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Amanda
2/24/2012 02:04:51 am

YUMMM Stew! ~drool~ Must be lunch time.

Hey, I love the idea of a more group led group myself. Unfortunately we are more of a leader based P-grove, mainly because very few people understand the ADF ritual structure at present. As we grow, and people get more familiar with how ADf works, I'm hoping to move more the other direction.

Thanks for the linkage =-)

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Jane Hoskinson (Lark)
2/24/2012 03:15:21 am

I'll second Turtle's observations. Dragons occur in consensus-based groups, too, although the process itself can sometimes help manage them. A couple of bird-dog type issues have required calling special meetings for discussion. With full consensus ground rules in place, this has generally settled the matter, at least temporarily, although it's a little cumbersome.

I appreciate consensus practice; it's saved more than one situation. I've applied it at work as well, with some success; it's particularly useful if you're in charge of a group of people who all outrank you.

Consensus principles can be used as fuel by a determined dragon. This is difficult to deal with because it uses the system itself against the group members. I don't have suggestions for coping, although it occurs to me that a solution from a different group structure might be helpful. I'm open to ideas.

I'm curious: What did General von Moltke do with group 4, bright and lazy?

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Amanda
2/24/2012 05:10:55 am

Promoted them as quickly as possible to the top most positions. He felt they were the best leaders available ;-)

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Jane Hoskinson
2/24/2012 10:56:06 pm

Okay, from now on, I'm definitely going to cultivate my laziness. If I don't turn out to be a leader, at least I'll be mostly harmless.
I've been enjoying your blog. Thanks.

Jennifer Land
2/24/2012 03:28:48 am

Your posts are always so great to see! I have done a ton of committee work, so a lot of this actually made me kind of chuckle, because i have very specific people that matched each type of dragon- the list was not short. So, you mentioned a couple of types that I would like to speak to. The first is the wet blanket... which I am a little surprised you can't find much in the way of how to deal with them. My experience - as with any of these "dragons" REALLY- is to work on myself and to always come from a place of intense love and empathy. I know I can relate to that feeling of apathy. The feeling of " what's the point?", "is it really worth all this effort?". And I know that I wasn't in anyway intending to be contagious about it. So, once I can empathize, the behaviour and the attitude seems less.....overwhelming. I kind of "retaliate" with an attitude of... being excited and motivated enough for both of us. Like.." that's ok if you aren't interested in what we're doing here.. and I'm open to hearing why you think this is a bad idea, but what we are doing is very important to me ( maybe explain your reasons) and i feel that this is worth our energy and resources". Its kind of about being encouraging without being overwhelming or dismissive. I hope that was clear. The other type you hinted at needing help with was Captain Bluster. I've got a LOT of experience with this. And they can be really destructive with long lasting, far-reaching effects. The most wholly effective way to cope with this situation starts with that foundation again of love and empathy. I choose to believe that they are coming from a place of intense passion. THey want this thing to work and they want it to work right and perfect and they want it so desperately. The chest-puffing and steam-rolling I personally believe is an attempt to hide their fear that this thing won't work out or isn't really worth the time or that their investment wont pay off. Once I can see that, i can relate and empathize and use that to my benefit in my communication. Being repetitive and clear in communications with them. I have found it really useful- especially in the public settings like a committee meeting to keep refering to any policies or guidelines that are in place, especially if they have a spiritual foundation. Like... If the group is really big on a deomcratic practice, reminding them that we function as "one man, one vote". Or if the group has a clear primary purpose, I've had to keep bringing that up. So. .... Again, kind of getting myself in the best possible place about how people are and why we are that way really helps in dealing with people. WE're all the same, really. And We all deserve love and compassion and we all deserve to be heard and treated with respect.

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snakeappletree
2/24/2012 04:08:03 am

Thanks, for this is a very well written blog and its focus is explored with clarity. I will be linking this to appropriate locations. Having checked myself to see if I am a bird-dog I came up with two suggestions for you.

1) wet blankets.
My mother used to put them in the tumble dryer. In terms of a coven being a cauldron, the analogy is to push the wet blanket about between the aware members in a self-realization game to dry him or her out. Dry conversation means hard talk which means telling it as it is. Do you realize the effect you are having on the group? Do you know what you are doing by behaving like that? They cry, they dry. I guess you could call this the wringing-them-out procedure. I don't know a better way. If they come back they'll behave for a while. Its a harsh reality and stale water is not welcome, bad water is unhealthy. In Fremen culture we throw such people into the desert.

2) Edward de Bono The Six Hats.
There are video's on youtube, get the book. It teaches a superb method for groups to achieve strategy without a dominator being allowed; it sort of forces that and humbles anyone who tries.

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Harzgeist link
2/25/2012 01:09:35 am

As I'm solitary, I can only speak from experiences with my Creative Writing group, but since we're a fairly close-knit bunch, I guess what I want to say also applies to coven structures.

We dealt with our wet blanket by getting everyone together, talking about the issue at hand and after a certain amount of time (I guess it was about half an hour) we asked if there were any more important things in need of being said - if yes, we let the blanket have their say, but if it's just repetitions (which it usually is), we tell them thanks, move on and don't mention it again when they're around/hint at the group discussion had. This way, we show the blanket that we value their opinion, but that we don't want to focus on their negativity all the time.

The Captain is less easy to deal with, but I find it helps to tell them that you value their efforts. Since they quite often expect opposition, telling them that they do something well often takes them off balance and you can have your say more easily.

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Kelek Oakenbough
2/25/2012 01:39:50 am

Dragon is an incorrect label to put upon these drama and stress causing types. I know a few true dragons that would never lower themselves to behave in such a manner. These drama types are from a group of chaotic types that I have not yet learned the original name of.

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    Amanda Thomas is the Grove Organizer for the Ad Astra Grove.  She also serves on the Topeka Interfaith Council.

    Hera Lakeshore is a practicing druid and contributor to the Ad Astra Grove blog.

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